I love that you are sharing these stories with the world. Such a valuable resource for anyone looking at signing contracts. You certainly provide a LOT of info that people need to think about in contract and work-for-hire situations.
The worst contract I ever saw was for Bluewater, then Stormfront, then Storm, then Tidal Wave which was entirely work for hire, but only paid (poorly) on backend based on sales. Which were going to be poor.
Yeah, I can't recall how they approached me, but somehow I got a look at one of their agreements, too. All spec, and they got people to work for them on that.
Ugh, I’m sorry you had that experience, but I appreciate you sharing it to warn all of us. Similarly, I’ve recently learned through college tours with my kids that there are many (many!) universities that will *own the rights* to what students in their film schools (including animation) create and develop! My mind was blown! Anyway, this is gonna end up factoring into our decision about college. It’s lame that it’s in the fine print.
I am so sorry to read that. I recall spending a long time on a research paper about King Arthur, and that was back in the day when getting copies of things was hard. So I gave the prof my only copy. I got a good grade on it, but he refused to return it claiming the school now owned it! I could not believe it.
I'm not sure I completely understood all of this but it's another example of art and creative people being undervalued by execs. They will get away with this time and again with less experienced artists and that's very sad.
I still kind of want to know what the book was though...
I didn’t do a publishing contracts, but I did a whole lot of others. The most difficult to negotiate were one-offs where the business people hadn’t thought everything through. The easiest were deals where parties switched sides from time to time and agreed to negotiate the few variable details from a balanced form. One purchase program was so standardize we made it in an attachment to a 2-page cover page to memorialize $100 million plus deals.
The sort of aggressively buyer friendly form you describe portended a host of problems down the road, because the were asking for bespoke work at thrift store prices.
Yeah, some people come up with offers that will just never work out to be worth it.
I once got hired to write a screenplay for a guy who "had a great idea". He said he had an agreement with a low-level producer who was interested in his idea. I took it on because he guaranteed me an up-front price to start the writing, with a share of the actual sale (should it happen -- he was optimistic). I took that gig because at the time I really needed some income, and the up-front got me through a couple of months.
Most of the plot elements he required were a stretch to work in, but I did it, and had some fun with a couple of the ideas in the script that I came up with. One of my screenwriting friends was concerned that I was gulled by the project, since in such deals things rarely come together let alone make any money. I remember just staring at her, thinking, "I do actually know that. I don't really have an expectation of it going before cameras. But right now, I'm actually homeless, and there's this up-front that WILL be paid, and I need it!" (Of course, the project did fall apart. But I at least got paid -- an amount I made good use of -- for writing the script.)
But those are about the only conditions I would take on such a project.
Thanks for sharing this! The idea that anyone would offer you such a deal is horrifying, though I guess it’s unsurprising for execs who see art as one more line to quantify on a spreadsheet. Contract negotiation is such a vital skill, especially for creatives who may not know what options they have. Thanks again for everything!
You have far more patience than I for such dubious clients. I go running for the hills whenever a publisher throws up more red flags than a May Day Parade. It's flabbergasting that they mentioned funding through kickstarter. That right there is a huuuuuuge red flag when one considers that crowdfunding has 60%+ failure rate on most projects.
Thank goodness your business acumen was far better than their brazen bamboozles on public domain works.
You dodged a bullet and all, but I just need to say that Good Omens is one of the greatest books I've ever read. It includes the wonderful simile, "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide."
I love that you are sharing these stories with the world. Such a valuable resource for anyone looking at signing contracts. You certainly provide a LOT of info that people need to think about in contract and work-for-hire situations.
The worst contract I ever saw was for Bluewater, then Stormfront, then Storm, then Tidal Wave which was entirely work for hire, but only paid (poorly) on backend based on sales. Which were going to be poor.
Yeah, I can't recall how they approached me, but somehow I got a look at one of their agreements, too. All spec, and they got people to work for them on that.
Ugh, I’m sorry you had that experience, but I appreciate you sharing it to warn all of us. Similarly, I’ve recently learned through college tours with my kids that there are many (many!) universities that will *own the rights* to what students in their film schools (including animation) create and develop! My mind was blown! Anyway, this is gonna end up factoring into our decision about college. It’s lame that it’s in the fine print.
I am so sorry to read that. I recall spending a long time on a research paper about King Arthur, and that was back in the day when getting copies of things was hard. So I gave the prof my only copy. I got a good grade on it, but he refused to return it claiming the school now owned it! I could not believe it.
I'm not sure I completely understood all of this but it's another example of art and creative people being undervalued by execs. They will get away with this time and again with less experienced artists and that's very sad.
I still kind of want to know what the book was though...
I didn’t do a publishing contracts, but I did a whole lot of others. The most difficult to negotiate were one-offs where the business people hadn’t thought everything through. The easiest were deals where parties switched sides from time to time and agreed to negotiate the few variable details from a balanced form. One purchase program was so standardize we made it in an attachment to a 2-page cover page to memorialize $100 million plus deals.
The sort of aggressively buyer friendly form you describe portended a host of problems down the road, because the were asking for bespoke work at thrift store prices.
Yep. As I recall, it was about half my normal rate. And $100 a page for art? Um...heh.
More of this tea, please!
Very familiar stuff here! You dodged a bullet.
Yeah, some people come up with offers that will just never work out to be worth it.
I once got hired to write a screenplay for a guy who "had a great idea". He said he had an agreement with a low-level producer who was interested in his idea. I took it on because he guaranteed me an up-front price to start the writing, with a share of the actual sale (should it happen -- he was optimistic). I took that gig because at the time I really needed some income, and the up-front got me through a couple of months.
Most of the plot elements he required were a stretch to work in, but I did it, and had some fun with a couple of the ideas in the script that I came up with. One of my screenwriting friends was concerned that I was gulled by the project, since in such deals things rarely come together let alone make any money. I remember just staring at her, thinking, "I do actually know that. I don't really have an expectation of it going before cameras. But right now, I'm actually homeless, and there's this up-front that WILL be paid, and I need it!" (Of course, the project did fall apart. But I at least got paid -- an amount I made good use of -- for writing the script.)
But those are about the only conditions I would take on such a project.
Thanks for sharing this! The idea that anyone would offer you such a deal is horrifying, though I guess it’s unsurprising for execs who see art as one more line to quantify on a spreadsheet. Contract negotiation is such a vital skill, especially for creatives who may not know what options they have. Thanks again for everything!
Ghouls.
The sad part of this is that they always seem to be able to find somebody who'll do this stuff.
You have far more patience than I for such dubious clients. I go running for the hills whenever a publisher throws up more red flags than a May Day Parade. It's flabbergasting that they mentioned funding through kickstarter. That right there is a huuuuuuge red flag when one considers that crowdfunding has 60%+ failure rate on most projects.
Thank goodness your business acumen was far better than their brazen bamboozles on public domain works.
You dodged a bullet and all, but I just need to say that Good Omens is one of the greatest books I've ever read. It includes the wonderful simile, "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide."
That's incredible.